‘It’s now appropriate to discuss minimum wage’

Shuen Ka Hung

In January last year, Shuen Ka Hung, the director of the Labour Affairs Bureau (DSAL), said Macau was ‘not ready’ for a minimum wage. A year has gone by, and he now says “it is the appropriate time for Macau to discuss the implementation of the minimum wage system”.
However, Shuen believes the government’s decision to start by establishing a minimum wage for cleaners and security guards is the smart choice, since the territory has no experience in this field. “We’ll gradually expand it to other industries,” he promised in an interview with Macau Daily Times.
The DSAL director also says that migrant workers are well protected in Macau, and downplays the criticism of the six month ban and the 10 day visas that workers are given once their contract is terminated.
Shuen, who is also the coordinator of the Standing Committee for the Coordination of Social Affairs, reaffirms that the right to strike and form trade unions is safeguarded by the Basic Law and recalls that the trade union law has been rejected more than once at the local legislature. “It is not the optimal time to enact these laws,” he adds.

Macau Daily Times – When government officials first talked about implementing the minimum wage in Macau last year, society was expecting it to be a wider policy, covering all the major industries just like in Hong Kong. Instead, the plan is now to establish it only for building security and cleaning industries. Why not make it a wider policy from the beginning?

Shuen Ka Hung (S.K.H) – We don’t have any experience regarding the establishment of a minimum wage policy. Of course it can be beneficial, but it also brings some challenges. After the implementation of the low-income subsidy scheme, we have found that those who need it the most are people working as cleaners and security guards. Therefore, we want to establish the minimum wage policy by implementing it first for these two professions and we’ll gradually expand it to other industries.

MDTimes – What about deadlines… Do you have any idea on when this first step could be complete?

‘I hope within this year that employer and worker representatives can reach a mutual understanding in order to set up the minimum wage for cleaners and security guards’

S.K.H. – I hope within this year that employer and worker representatives can reach a mutual understanding in order to set up the minimum wage for cleaners and security guards. But it’s hard for me to predict how long it will take and how far the discussion between both sides will go.

MDTimes – Do you think it’s going to be hard to reach a consensus for the establishment of the minimum wage?

S.K.H. – Presently it’s hard for me to answer the question since we haven’t in fact started to talk about the details. The government is going to commission an institution to carry out a study [that will be the base for that discussion]. We still haven’t got the study in our hands so it’s hard for me to predict how hard it will be to reach a consensus.

MDTimes – The government gave an example by establishing the minimum wage a couple of years ago for outsourcing security and cleaning services of the Public Administration. Now it is planning to increase the amount from MOP 21 to 23. Will this be a reference for the minimum wage in the private sector?

‘According to Macau’s legislation, including the Basic Law, discrimination is strictly prohibited in any terms, which obviously also protects migrant workers’

S.K.H. – What we’re going to do is carry out a wide study [and that will be one of the topics under analysis]. Hence, now it’s still difficult for me to say what should be acceptable as a minimum wage. We need to collect enough information first [in order to reach a fair decision].
Secondly, talking about outsourcing services for public departments, the level was set from the employer’s point of view, which in this case is the government. The government is quite well-off, so we cannot say it will yield consensus from employers [in the private sector].

[Hong Kong has introduced the minimum wage on May 1, which is expected to benefit almost 300,000 low-paid workers, who will now earn a minimum of HKD 28 (USD 3.60) per hour.
In the neighbouring SAR, the legislation was passed in response to public pressure to narrow the territory’s wealth gap – a problem that several observers say is worsening in Macau.
But in Hong Kong, the minimum wage has been resisted by the business community, who say it is too costly and some business leaders even said small businesses will be forced to lay off staff.
Employees are covered by the statutory minimum wage, regardless of whether they are monthly-rated, daily-rated, casual or part-time, and whether or not they are employed under a continuous contract as defined in the Employment Ordinance.
On the other hand, the Hong Kong legislation does not cover the territory’s domestic helpers.]

MDTimes – Will Hong Kong’s policy have any impact on Macau?

S.K.H. – Under the principle ‘one country, two systems’, Macau is one of the Special Administrative Regions of China, just like Hong Kong. But they are different and the [minimum wage] policy [implemented] in Hong Kong will not have any impact on Macau.

MDTimes – But aren’t you worried that if Macau establishes a lower minimum wage than in Hong Kong that it could result in protests from local workers associations?

S.K.H. – Both SAR’s have their own policies and we are not going to implement a policy because Hong Kong has it or not. I feel it is [now] appropriate for Macau to discuss the implementation of the minimum wage system [considering the growth the city has experienced]. Macau and Hong Kong have different systems and policies. For instance, some international labour conventions are only applicable to Macau while others are only applicable to Hong Kong. We are not going to establish a policy depending on how it goes in Hong Kong. We make our policies according to our own needs.

MDTimes – So the HKD 28 established in Hong Kong will not add any pressure?

S.K.H. – I prefer not to comment.

‘Some lawmakers already proposed a trade union law at the local legislature, but green lighted. It is not the optimal time to enact these laws’

Migrant workers

MDTimes – Some local groups often call on the government to further restrict the rules for local companies to hire non-resident workers and they usually point their fingers at migrant workers as those to blame for constraining the access to the work market. Is there any type of discrimination towards migrant workers?

S.K.H. – According to Macau’s legislation, including the Basic Law, discrimination is strictly prohibited in any terms, which obviously also protects migrant workers. In our law, there are different ways to check and prohibit any discrimination. Moreover, all workers, no matter if they are resident or not, who think they are being discriminated against can lodge a complaint which in due time will be investigated. Our department provides assistance and legal advice to workers.
Of course we cannot rule out the fact that in our society there may be some discrimination. But fortunately, this is not a common phenomenon.

MDTimes – The law regarding migrant workers has been criticised especially the 10 day visa permit currently given to workers who are appealing their employer’s decision, is considered extremely short. Do these workers really have the opportunity to effectively challenge the termination of their contract if they think they’ve been wrongfully dismissed?

S.K.H. – When a non-resident worker terminates their contract with a local employer they will lose their working visa. Since they lose the capacity to work in Macau, the Immigration Department will give them a 10 day visa, which allows them to handle their matters before leaving the territory.
This 10 day visa is a usual practice, but if necessary the Immigration Department can expand the visa in some special cases.
So, if a non-resident worker has a labour dispute with their former employer regarding the terms on which their contract was terminated, they can lodge a complaint and our bureau will carry out an investigation. Even if the worker has to leave Macau, we’ll continue to follow up the case.
In some cases, non-resident workers can also ask other people to help them handle the case in Macau. Plus, during the investigation process, we also keep close contact with the worker in case more information is needed.
In some complicated cases, our bureau works with the PSP [Public Security Police] to see if there is any need to expand the visa of the non-resident worker. But this is not a usual practice.

[The so-called Imported Labour Law took effect in April 2010. Yet, aside from the 10 day visa, other controversial issues remain like the ‘six-month waiting period’. The article prevents non-local workers from job-hopping.
If a worker voluntarily resigns to accept a better job offer or for other reasons, he or she is required to leave Macau for six months, and only after that will be granted a new work permit [blue card] to work for another employer.
In contrast, if it is the employer who dismisses the worker without just cause, he or she will be free to find a new job at once basically without any legal constraints.]

MDTimes – Some experts say the more you restrict the opportunities of migrant workers to look for another job, the more you will expose them to certain conditions. Could this law be subjecting them to unpleasant conditions?

‘We are not going to establish a policy depending on how it goes in Hong Kong. We make our policies according to our own needs’

S.K.H. – The six month ban will only apply when the non-resident work cannot justify or explain why the contract was terminated and he or she cannot continue to work for their current employer.
Moreover, once their contract is terminated, they have no longer a work permit but just a 10 days visa, so it is necessary for them to leave Macau. The person is always free to come back to Macau within the six months, but not to work during that time. So, it’s not mandatory to every case and I think the six month ban is really not a big deal.

MDTimes – The International Labour Organisation (ILO) is calling for the drafting of an international convention to extend labour standards and social protection to the world’s domestic workers, something that could be formally done during next month’s conference. What changes could it bring to Macau?

S.K.H. – This is the third time that the ILO is going to discuss the topic. We estimate that the discussion will take place this year, thus, every country and region will have to evaluate whether or not they ratify the convention. If we accept the convention we’ll probably need to enact some new laws to cope with it. Nevertheless, we still don’t know what the final resolution will be so it’s difficult to say what will change for domestic helpers.
‘Not optimal’

MDTimes – The government has said several times that there are enough human resources in Macau. However, the unemployment rate stands at 2.7 percent and the business community complains about the lack of workers. So, where are the workers that the government talks about?

S.K.H. – Our bureau is no longer handling human resources applications, like it did in the past. That is now under the Human Resources Office, so it’s not up to us to comment if there is enough human resources in Macau.

MDTimes – But the lack of enough manpower has even been pointed out by the human resources research team of the Committee for Economic Development, a government advisory body. Don’t you fear that investors may lose confidence in the market if they cannot get enough workers?

S.K.H. – I really don’t want to interfere with other bureau’s functions. So I will not answer these questions.

MDTimes – The government has decided to revise the Labour Relations Law, some three years after it was enacted. Why and what needs to be changed?

S.K.H. – Both the employer and worker representatives think it is necessary to revise the current legislation. Employer and employee representatives have expressed diverse opinions regarding the revision of the law.
For instance, employer representatives are mostly concerned with the current provision that allows those who work on a statutory holiday to receive triple pay, whilst employee representatives’ focus is on the arrangements for an enhanced retirement protection system.
They have different points of view and we asked them to [formally] provide us with their suggestions [until mid-August].

MDTimes – Any plans to push forward the enactment of the trade union and strike laws?

S.K.H. – The right to strike and form trade unions is safeguarded by the Basic Law. Since the handover, several workers associations have been created and they even receive subsidies from the government.
Some lawmakers already proposed a trade union law at the local legislature, but it didn’t get green lighted. It is not the optimal time to enact these laws.