‘Nobody knows what’s happening at the Judicial Council’

The Macau courts are already scheduling hearings for 2012 and the situation calls for “more effective actions,” Leonel Alves says. Yet, he bemoans, “Nobody knows what’s happening at the Judicial Council.” The lawyer asks for “more transparency when it comes to the policies to be implemented in the justice area”.
One thing that shouldn’t change, the lawmaker warns, is the Portuguese-based Macau law. For Alves, the calls for copying mainland China laws are “a social psychosis”. “It seems the Beijing people can see the importance of the Portuguese language more clearly than the Macau people,” he adds.
On the other hand, the lawyer believes the Hong Kong reform could open the door for democratisation in the MSAR. “The Macau society will have to come out and speak its mind,” Alves says.

Macau Daily Times (MDT) – Is the rule of law respected in Macau?
Leonel Alves – The Administration has been managing the public interest according to the law. But soon enough we will have new generations in charge, so the respect for the Basic Law has to be part of the population’s genetic code. I’m the president of the Macau Security Forces Discipline Supervision Committee and we have been stressing the need for knowledge of citizens’ rights, freedoms and guarantees. We must prepare our population, as a lot of people have just arrived.
MDT – As president of the Commission, what’s your evaluation on the security forces’ respect for human rights?
L.A.  – My biggest concern is about the future training of new officers, with a special focus on the respect for the fundamental rights. The Government is aware of it, the actions are being put in to place, but a law can’t impose it. It’s important for the civil society to eagerly stand up and support these principles.

‘It’s impossible to simply replace the Macau law because we don’t have experts to create a legal system from scratch’

MDT – How is the liaison between the Judiciary Police, the Public Prosecutions Office and the judicial system?
L.A. – Everywhere in the world it never works 100 percent. But if you want me to talk about the Luís Amorim case, what matters for the investigation is to find the truth. Until the day when the crime is lapsed, all actions must be taken, especially when lives are at stake.
MDT – Should the Prosecutions Office analyze the information coming from the autopsy made in Portugal, which points to a violent death and not suicide?
L.A. – Absolutely.
MDT – Many lawmakers have regularly said the Macau law should become closer to Mainland law…
L.A. – It’s a trend, also among common citizens. It’s impossible to simply replace the Macau law because we don’t have experts to create a legal system from scratch. Why is there such a trend? In certain economic, professional and technical activities laws are outdated. When that prevents a swift resolution of any issues, the first complaint is that the law is not good enough, that it’s too complicated. And who’s to blame? The Portuguese, they made the laws. It’s a social psychosis.
MDT – So laws in particular need an update?
L.A. – For instance, the urban construction regulation comes from the 50’s. But we mostly need new laws to new realities, like environment protection, urban planning, public health and food products’ security. But where are the experts to do that? On every opportunity I defend the creation of an institute of comparative law. Macau can work as a lab for modern law.
MDT – Macau continues to ‘import’ lawyers and judges from Portugal. Is there a credibility problem affecting the local Law higher studies?
L.A. – Let’s not be that radical or pessimistic. Macau had a very fast economic growth and the law firms had to hire more people. What I do feel is the need to offer the local jurists more training. If they have the opportunity to go to Portugal, get to know the language, the law – that would be beneficial. To know the Macau law during the next 10 years at least, the fundamental condition is to know the Portuguese language.
MDT – And yet many lawmakers claim the bilingualism is the main reason for Macau’s slow judicial system…
L.A. – I have made interventions in China promoting Portuguese language studies. And people are welcoming this vision that Portuguese language and Macau law are useful to Macau and might become useful to China. It seems the Beijing people can see the importance of the Portuguese language more clearly than the Macau people (laughs).

‘It seems the Beijing people can see the importance of the Portuguese language more clearly than the Macau people’

MDT – So you don’t consider it to be a factor in the slow judicial system…
L.A. – Quite the opposite.
MDT – Nonetheless, the number of pending criminal cases doubled in the last decade. Is that something we should be worried about?
L.A. – It’s always worrying. The longer it takes for a case to reach court, the less effective justice will be. More effective actions are needed.
MDT – What kind of measures?
L.A. – I don’t know, I don’t work at the Judicial Council. Nobody knows what’s happening at the Judicial Council. At the Legislative Assembly the Secretary [for Administration and Justice, Florinda Chan] said that’s not her business (pauses). There needs to be more transparency when it comes to the policies to be implemented in the justice area.
MDT – Is the Macau justice system in danger of collapsing?
L.A.  – At this point, no. But a hearing scheduled for two years from now, that’s not normal. Something has to be done, maybe they can get more judges, at least to make the waiting time drop to 18 months.
MDT –You publicly stated that the public supervisory institutions should be reinforced. With all the controversy surrounding the Commission Against Corruption (CCAC), should the parliamentary supervision committee be reinforced as well?
L.A.  – Maybe they should increase its scope. That’s the issue we face in our committee [Macau Security Forces Discipline Supervision Committee]: the jurisdiction is very limited.
MDT – How do you evaluate CCAC’s actions when it comes to the respect for the suspects’ rights?
L.A. – I don’t condemn the release of information under secrecy of justice. It was an experiment and it was corrected. It was born of need, of the Ao Man Long circumstances and also as a preventive measure. Yet it wouldn’t be bad at all to have a debate, between people who know these issues, on how to improve.
MDT – Is the exception granting CCAC an undetermined investigation period necessary?
L.A. – I don’t think so and I don’t agree with it. It’s not fair for a citizen to carry the “suspect” stigma until the crime lapses. If new evidences show up, they can always reopen the case.
MDT – A Legislative Assembly commission recommended that the exception be overturned, yet nothing has changed…
L.A. – It was always just a recommendation, with no mandatory power. But I believe the Government should take into consideration this political statement in the first opportunity.
MDT – How do you feel about CCAC also having ombudsman powers?
L.A. – I think the Ombudsman should be an autonomous public service. If there is an independent institution for protecting personal data, the Ombudsman deserves even more dignity.
MDT – The right to strike and to form a labour union are both part of the Basic Law but no legislation has been approved so far…
L.A. – If it’s written down in the Basic Law, it should be regulated. To legislate about both issues we need a minimum consensus. If we look at the Legislative Assemblies, we see the two main sectors: workers and the business owners.
MDT – Do you feel a consensus is possible at the moment?
L.A.  – Honestly, not at all.
MDT – Is the Legislative Assembly dominated by the employers?
L.A.  – The business side has always been stronger. Yet the search for consensus has become a habit. There is no radical dispute. The Legislative Assembly is not a social dialogue council and it never was. What I don’t see is a qualitative jump from the 80’s when it comes to the perception of these issues.
MDT – Chui Sai On promised to put forward a schedule for democracy. Meanwhile, should the composition of the Legislative Assembly be changed?
L.A.  – The number of nominated lawmakers can be decreased and the members elected by direct and indirect voting increased. I can identify a need for a wider scope of representation in the education, social, culture and sports sectors. In the professional side perhaps one more member is needed, from the medical or nursing class.
MDT – Do you believe these changes might be approved in time for the next elections?
L.A.  – I think so. We have to see what the political conditions are and how the society’s ideals have matured. A wide majority at the Assembly is fundamental.
MDT – And what about democracy?
L.A.  – The Hong Kong experience is very important. In this grand prix we are not going to outrun the car standing in the pole position since 1997. Let’s see how the Hong Kong system evolves, how the democratisation proposals are welcomed and then we will see.
MDT – If the Hong Kong reform is approved…
L.A.  – The political system is different but we will then have the key to open the door for an easier change. I just don’t know what the content will be. The Macau society will have to come out and speak its mind.