‘Lack of a trade union law is very serious’

‘Before the law was enacted, non-resident workers were not being protected at all and now they are being minimally protected’

MDT – In the past, you were in charge of the first rallies in Macau. The last May 1 demonstration ended in clashes between protesters and police. Do you think demonstrations are becoming more violent in Macau?

J.F. – Please note that I wasn’t in Macau on May 1. But, in fact, it was too violent. I think people have the right to express themselves, but we should never use violence. Presently, demonstrations are more violent because of the mass media. For instance, here in Macau we are close to Taiwan – a territory were violence at this kind of event is usual –, close to Hong Kong and Europe. Moreover, there are external forces that would like to see some instability in Macau by setting off this kind of situation. Nowadays, China’s economy is developing on a large scale and I think other countries would like to see a politically weakened China and take advantage of that. For that reason, they might make use of Hong Kong and Macau.

MDT – Do you think the main reason for such violence at demonstrations is external-based, rather than internal?

J.F. – Maybe. I cannot assure you that it is already happening. For example, in the past, I always tried to ensure that outsiders did not get into our association’s demonstrations. Everything has to be very well planned, clear and controlled, in order to avoid outsiders getting into the demonstration to provoke confusion.

MDT – Is there any connection between violent demonstrations and the lack of a trade union law in Macau?

J.F. – The lack of trade union law is a very old issue in Macau. In 1992, when I was a union leader, I was involved in the presentation of a trade union law proposal, but it seemed that both the Portuguese Administration and some lawmakers had no interest in seeing the law approved. Now, the Basic Law includes the right to organise demonstrations, but it does not make clear how, when and on what terms people can do it. Without a trade union law, nobody knows which are the rules of the game. This situation can be advantageous for some people, but never for the working class. In a city that wants to become international, the lack of a trade union law is very serious. We have everything from the hardware side, but there is still missing some basic laws [fit for] of a first world’s city. In terms of legislation, it looks like we are living in a “third world”.

MDT – Since the establishment of the MSAR, a proposed trade union law has been submitted to the Legislative Assembly (AL) twice…

J.F. – I was fortunate to have many AL fellow members endorse my draft of the trade union law. It did not pass because there were people in the AL who were too pro-government and there was no sign of the Government saying that the law could pass. Now, it is even more difficult to make it pass, because the consensus within the AL was not reached before the presentation. In the presentation of any draft law, there must be a political strategy beforehand.

MDT – Now that Macau is economically stable, is the trade union law still regarded as a threat to the economy?

J.F. – I do think so. Both the Government and the business community see this law as a threat. Without an organisation that represents workers, the businesspeople are always in a privileged situation. People who are connected to the corporate sector are ruling Macau and that creates even more difficulties.

MDT – Are the associations safeguarding the workers’ rights well?

J.F. – Nowadays, the Macau Federation of Trade Unions has been doing a good job, compared with the past. Their lawmakers have been the most vigorous in fighting for the workers’ rights.

MDT – What about the others?

J.F. – Local organisations are also doing a good job regarding the workers’ rights protection, but of course, if there were a trade union law things would be much better.

MDT – The new labour law was enforced in January last year. Is it safeguarding the workers’ interests well?

J.F. – The labour law presents minor flaws. It will take some years to “rough around the edges”. The old law was adapted to another kind of economic reality, which was the industrial mass production. Presently, the dragon’s head of Macau’s economy is the gaming industry and, for that reason, the new law is better than the old one. Still, there are always areas and issues arising. For instance, the imported labour law, although very recent, has some issues that should be reviewed.

MDT – What kind of issues are you talking about?

J.F. – It does not mention the domestic workers and that is a problem. Most of the domestic workers in Macau come from the Philippines and Indonesia. The labour law says that an employee must work for 8 hours a day, but what about the workers that live at the employers’ homes? How many hours do they work? After 8 hours, what do they have to do? Should they leave the house or stay? If there are legal disputes, problems can arise. The law must embrace every situation and not leave things out.

MDT – Are the non-resident workers well protected by the new law?

J.F. – Before the law was enacted, non-resident workers were not being protected at all and now they are being minimally protected. Is it covering all situations? Maybe not, but it’s better to have something imperfect than nothing. At least the first step has been taken.

MDT – You have mentioned that the new labour law has some flaws. What is missing?

J.F. – At this moment, everything looks to be OK. I think it is very hard to get more done in Macau, because, as I said before, Macau is governed by business people. Hence the difficulty of releasing more rules in order to protect the working class’s interests. What we have today was the result of the hard work of many people and organisations over many years. We cannot say it is excellent, but it isn’t bad. It takes time to see how a law does work and find out what should be improved.

MDT – The Government is considering establishing minimum wages for the cleaning and security industries, and they’ve been trying that out for quite some time now. What are your views on that?

J.F. – A modern and developed society ought to have a minimum wage. Without it, workers can be easily exploited. It is a good policy, but there is some resistance from the business sector in Macau. Even so, it should be created not only for certain sectors, but for all. It is the fairest thing to do.